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Can Men and Women Really be “Just Friends?”

There is a scene in the movie “When Harry Met Sally,” where Harry (played by Billy Crystal) tells Sally (played by Meg Ryan) that Men and Women can never be friends. Sally, of course, is insulted that he would say such an awful thing and rejects the notion. Ironically, they end up being friends for years before sleeping together, which changes everything. If you haven’t seen the movie, I won’t spoil the ending for you.

Does Harry have a point? The writer of the movie, Nora Ephron, poses a question through this dialog that few people consider: Do intimate but purely platonic male-female friendships exist or are we just kidding ourselves?

I would assume that most people, especially women, agree with Sally and take for granted that they do exist. I, on the other hand, see some truth in what Harry is saying. While I am not so naïve as to believe that these types of friendship have never existed, I would be willing to bet that they are much less common that most people think.

Before I offend the entire readership of this blog, lets define “intimate but purely platonic friendships” for the sake of this article. I am not talking about friends who hang out occasionally or share laughs together at work. I am not even talking about people who count on each other in a time of need. I am talking about people who fit these three criteria:

1) They spend a lot of leisure time alone together, not just a few lunches every now and them.

2) They trust each other to the point where they share private information with each other that few other people know.

3) They share an emotional bond but neither is sexually attracted to the other.

This definition describes most “best friends” of the same sex, but how frequently does this definition describe a male-female relationship?

In my experience, I have seen many examples of women who enjoy keeping male friends around because they like being able to access a “man’s perspective” without the complications of sexual attraction. Some women actually prefer to have male friends because they can avoid the cattiness and social competitiveness that exists in some female friendships. Even though these women are perfectly happy with their intimate relationships with men, I wonder how many of their male “friends” would sleep with them given the opportunity.

On the other hand, I have also seen many examples of men who, after failing to get a favorable response from their advances toward a woman, continue their pursuit by befriending her. The befriended woman doesn’t realize that by carrying on the charade, she is slowly ripping his heart out.

I know a woman who used to take a guy friend shopping with her every week to tell her how she looked as she tried on dresses and swimsuits. She thought that he was just a really great friend who was sharing some great insight with her on how she looked to men.

He finally couldn’t take it anymore. One night after having some wine, he broke down. He told her that she had been slowly torturing him, he was secretly in love with her, and this so-called friendship was driving him crazy! She was completely blindsided. She never considered that he was sexually attracted to her. At least he had the courage to say something. Many men never do.

To all the women out there who are shaking your heads like Sally and are listing all the men that you have as friends as proof against this notion; I would just say that you might be surprised as to how many of these men are attracted to you.

You see, when men look for someone to be friends with, we look for someone with whom we can watch TV, play sports, go fishing, or have a barbecue. Men bond over activities. We tend not to talk about our emotions, ask each other for advice, and we certainly don’t go shopping with each other if we can avoid it. You might be thinking that these are the very things that are wrong with us (and you might be right) but this is the way we are.

On the other hand, many men mistakenly befriend the women that they are secretly in love with only to get hurt emotionally. Since sharing emotions with someone is not something that comes naturally for us, when we do share our emotions it takes an enormous amount of energy. Sharing our feelings leaves us feeling vulnerable, so we save this sacred gift for the woman we want deeply. Women often mistake this emotional exchange as an act of friendship, because that is what comes naturally for them.

To all the men out there who have spilled your guts out to some woman in the hopes that she will someday see that you are meant to be together: I’m sorry. Although I empathize with you, I must tell you—she’s never going to come around. While emotions come naturally for women, sharing activity doesn’t, so a woman tends to only share activity with the man she wants. I think you know what I’m talking about when I say, “share activity.” Basically, if you have a purely emotional relationship with a woman that you want, without any activity, you’re probably not the one.

“Swingers,” my favorite movie of all time, has a scene where Trent (played by Vince Vaughn) is trying to give some advice to his friend Mike (played by Jon Favreau). Mike made the mistake of getting emotional right away with a girl that he was interested in. Instead of being clear that he was interested in her, he spills his guts out to her about his ex. Trent warns him of ending up on the “friendship tip,” meaning that once she sees him as a friend, she will never see him as anything more.

This brings up an interesting view of how men get hurt in relationships. Everyone is familiar with a common way that women get hurt: a man sleeps with her and never calls. While women get hurt by sharing something that is sacred to them, their sexual activity, men get hurt by sharing what is sacred to us, our emotional energy. While I am not trying to make excuses for men, or convince anyone to feel sorry for us, I do think that people should be aware of how this works.

Understanding the fundamental differences between men and women can go a long way to promote communication between us. Men and women operate in completely different paradigms. I recommend reading a book by John Gray called “Women are From Venus, Men are From Mars.” It helps to explain the differences in thinking between the sexes. When it comes down to it, we really do seem to come from different planets!

A man who doesn’t know this information will just assume that women think the way he does. He might go around sleeping with them like it’s no big deal, leaving a wake of scarred women. On the other hand, a woman who doesn’t know this information will just assume that all men think the way she does. She might go around befriending men to make up for her boyfriend’s emotional void. She saves her sexual activity for her boyfriend and gets to express her emotions to her guy “friends.” While this seems perfectly acceptable by societal standards, she doesn’t realize what she is doing to these men.

When I was in college one of my favorite classes was on interpersonal communication. The class really opened my eyes to the different ways that people think. As you can imagine a class on human relationships tends to breed close friendships within the class. We formed a tight-knit group of friends and continued the discussions after class.

I made an especially strong connection with an attractive girl in our group. We would take long walks and spend hours on the phone discussing what we were learning and sharing our beliefs with each other. Even though she had a boyfriend, I was absolutely convinced that we were meant to be together. At the time, I felt like she was the only person in the world who completely understood me.

The more we talked, the more I was hooked. This went on for the rest of the semester. It started to get really ugly when she began to bring up her relationship and ask me for advice. We could both agree that he was a jerk and that they shouldn’t be together but she continued to stay with him. As we talked I felt like we were on the same page, but when we hung up I was no better off than before.

When I look back on the situation, I realize that she had no incentive to leave him. All her needs were being met. He was fulfilling her physical needs and I was fulfilling her emotional needs. I was incorrectly projecting my own paradigm on her and thinking that we were on the same page.

When I finally figured out what was going on, it was a huge relief. While I still hung out with her from time to time in the group, I stopped spending the intense, emotional, one-on-one time with her that was killing me. In fact, I wasn’t even angry at her anymore. I was able to see past the situation and realize that she really wasn’t even my type.

These types of stories are very common, in fact, I know many men who have been in the same situation. These experiences foster the impression that nice guys really do finish last. Some men get hardened by these experiences and decide that the only way to get the girl is to be a jerk.

I am not advocating the “jerk” mentality, but I am suggesting that there is a duality that exists between nice guys and jerks. The “nice guy” mentality hurts men, and the “jerk” mentality hurts women. The answer, as in most dualistic situations, is not somewhere in between, but above. Men should be advised to take the emotional part of relationships slowly. Just as women are often advised to hold off until they get physical, men should hold off until they get emotional. I am not saying that men should never open up, because that would sort of be the “jerk” mentality. I am simply suggesting to ease into it.

Taking it slow has several advantages. First of all, it creates a little mystery. Women like the challenge of finding out who a man really is and if he tells her all at once the mystery is over. Second, a man who plays all his cards at once, by law of attraction, comes off as desperate. By trying so hard, he is simply reaffirming the fact that he doesn’t have her. Law of Attraction states that a person gets more of what he thinks about, so as he is dwelling on not having her, he continues to experience that result. Third, he is protecting himself from ending up on the “friendship tip.”

Most of all, men need to learn how to be tough. If a woman isn’t interested in you, move on. If you are interested in a woman, be clear about your intentions. Don’t try to sneak into a relationship by befriending her first. This just leads to confusion and heartache down the road.

To women, I would just suggest being aware of this phenomenon. Most men aren’t looking for a woman to go shopping with. This especially applies to exes. A lot of women have the idealistic view that no matter what happens in their relationship, they will always be “friends” with their partner. They break up, enter a new relationship, but keep in touch with their ex.

Many people will disagree, but can’t think of anything positive that comes out of maintaining an intimate friendship with an ex after you move on to a new relationship. There are a million reasons why this might not be practical, such as kids or shared property, but holding on to an ex tends to only complicate things.

First of all, in most cases men have no reason to remain emotionally close with an ex except to keep the door open. We don’t like to spend emotional energy, and only do so for someone we want to be with. With exes, the emotional energy spent is multiplied exponentially and the man has even less reason to remain close unless he has other intentions. This at best is unfair to her new partner.

Secondly, remaining close with an ex only increases doubt and mistrust in the mind of a new partner. This is especially true for men. We know how other men think, so we can see right through the ex’s attempts to be “friends” with her. This can be extremely painful for us because we know what is going on, but she is oblivious.

Lastly, it diminishes his sense of manhood when his partner spends excessive time with an ex. We feel best about our relationships when our partners make us feel useful and powerful. While we have come a long ways since men went out and killed the food while women stayed home to cook it, we still instinctively have strong feelings about being able to provide for our partners. Spending time with her ex makes us feel like the ex is fulfilling her needs instead of us.

Remember the woman who used to take the guy shopping with her? She revealed that story to me after a long conversation on this topic. At first, she reacted like Sally. She started naming off all the men that she considered friends; but after explaining my theories to her, a light went off in her head. She realized that of these friendships had ended after they made an advance on her. Learning why this was happening was a huge relief. Now she makes sure that her intentions are clear when entering relationships with men, therefore avoiding confusion.

In this article I have used a very dualistic tone, making it sound like every man thinks a certain way and every woman thinks another. Relativistic people will point out that there are not only exceptions to every rule, but often many shades of gray between black and white. Of coarse examples exist of intimate but purely platonic male-female friendships. Again, I am just suggesting that they are less common than people think.

While I understand that a relativistic perspective is an important part of critical thinking; I find that the best way to understand a situation is to start by looking at it dualistically. After I identify the two opposing forces at work, I then use relativistic thinking to help me understand the gray areas in between.

The most obvious exception is the gay and lesbian community. I can only write from a heterosexual perspective, but it would be interesting to know if any of these principles apply to the homosexual world. (Comments, anyone?)

Maybe men and women will never understand each other. Maybe women will continue to think that they can be “just friends” with men and men will continue to think that these friendships will turn into romances. One thing I know for sure is that not understanding each other helps keep us attracted to one another. The excitement in a relationship comes from continually learning about each other and growing together. Someone once said, “If two people agree on everything, then one of you is unnecessary.” It wouldn’t be as fun if we all were the same.

Good reading by other authors:
Guidelines for Platonic Friendships

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Genius Comments

Pingback from 2 By 2
Time: November 13, 2006, 10:20 am

Can Men and Women really be “Just Friends?” I for one think that it is possible, to have very good friends even if they are of the opposite gender. But one must draw the line definitely at how ‘close’ will this friend be. Somethings just have to give way if you are in a relationship and every

Pingback from Dave
Time: November 15, 2006, 2:34 am

this

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Time: March 25, 2007, 9:55 pm

[…] Your page is on StumbleUpon […]

Comment from Matthew Jabs
Time: March 28, 2007, 9:04 am

lol…cattiness. good word.

I had a girl like this when I was in high school, but after that didn’t work out…I never did it again. Great article on a very true aspect of interpersonal relationships.

PS…Swingers is my favorite movie too!

Pingback from Hyperactive - If You Wanna Be My lover?
Time: April 7, 2007, 7:17 am

[…] use the ‘nice guy’ mentality; they also get hurt because they get involved emotionally too quick. This article is a good read; the bits about how men and women get hurt differently in relationships are most […]

Pingback from Ramblings of a crazy man
Time: April 11, 2007, 12:34 pm

Here is the link to the full article, this blog is longer then the article is but when I let go and write I tend to have a lot to say. I would definitely recommend everyone read the article because I am sure it will give you insight into both sexes. http://geniustypes.com/can_men_and_women_really_be_just_friends/

Comment from Brad
Time: May 2, 2007, 1:30 pm

Women do think this way , I have a girlfriend who has these Flings with guys she calls ” Friends” She doesn’t cheat but she also doesn’t know or care that these guys want her . she has no clue what she is doing to be inside . It’s fine to be friends , But it’s not fine to go out with these guys alone .

Comment from Alice McCloud
Time: July 3, 2007, 5:52 pm

Great Article. I am a 54 year old female, who has experienced this for years. I never knew that I was setting up some disasters. Too often both the man & the woman gets hurt, one way or the other.

Comment from Brian Lee
Time: July 4, 2007, 12:10 am

I’m glad you stopped by, Alice.

Pingback from Help! falling in love with best friend. - Page 3 - QLC Message Boards
Time: July 11, 2007, 5:57 pm

[…] it can be done. Here is s website talking about Can Men and Women really be Just Friends? http://geniustypes.com/can_men_and_w…_just_friends/ ________________________________ You can make more friends in two months by becoming really […]

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Time: August 14, 2007, 8:05 pm

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Pingback from Things for me to read
Time: August 30, 2007, 6:45 am

this article

Comment from Jonathan
Time: September 1, 2007, 7:13 am

I have a bunch of female friends. I’m not interested in having sex with them. So yes, it is possible. Just depends on the people.

Comment from live in truth
Time: September 25, 2007, 2:02 am

I believe this author is telling the hidden, in the closet truth that has been a huge source of conflict, anger and victimization between men and women. I do believe that in certain circumstances men and women can “just be friends”, but more often than not there is a hidden agenda filtered by our unawareness and self deception and this can be very dangerous. I always had male friends, mainly because I found the conversations to be more intellectually stimulating or because I had the opportunity to participate and learn trades that were typically manly. Of course I believed that they were just my friends because that is what they told me. It wasn’t true. This turned into the worst case scenario. A man did not tell the truth to me or himself, I was unaware of the dynamic (as most women are) being too open and friendly. When I started dating someone, I suddenly became the villian abuser victimizer that had destroyed our marriage that I knew nothing about. This man was seriously hurt, angry and devastated. The truth is that we were both living in denial of how it typically works. I felt terrible because I didn’t know the truth and my unawareness contributed to his pain. Ladies, be careful because men can be very hurt and so can you. Deeply repressed emotions can turn into something VERY scary. Men are socialized to be strong and perhaps not let on how they really feel. Even if you tell them the truth, they might not hear you. We are not told the truth of how men typically think and even when we are we don’t want to believe it. Often these men will assume that we “know” in their mind, therefore they feel victimized and sometimes like in my case they will unjustly come after you and hurt you.

Comment from live in truth
Time: September 28, 2007, 11:52 pm

There is an additional comment I must make concerning this article and it’s slant toward the male perspective which does contain the unfortunate side of lying to ourselves and each other in gender relations.

He claims: “When the men fail to get a “favorable response” THEY befriend the woman. The befriended woman doesn’t realize that by carrying on the charade, SHE is ripping his heart out.”

I have to ask the question who is deceiving whom here? He is deceiving her, then conveniently assumes she must be aware of the “charade” HE is instigating in his mind and therefore blames her for what HE started in motion. He is transferring the blame. In fact, he set the situation up that way and then feels justified in calling her the victimizer.

Perhaps we all need to go within and wake up (men and women). Start telling ourselves and each other the truth so this type of psychological warfare and victimization is stopped. Men and women can be friends when they ARE men and women. Men and women are honest with themselves and each other.

Comment from Jeff
Time: February 5, 2008, 8:00 pm

I like the article, it truly does speak the truth. You haven’t posted an article in a long time, I hope you get back to it soon. Men and women truly are different, and although there are exceptions to this rule, it stands true empirically.

Comment from S
Time: March 27, 2008, 1:04 pm

I found this article to be extremely interesting, especially because it came from a guy’s perspective.

But I am a woman and in a strange situation myself. I was very close friends with this guy for 10 years. Even though for most of that time we weren’t in the same city, we have stayed very close. In retrospect, I suspect he had feelings for me toward the beginning of our friendship but I think I was probably oblivious (willingly and unwittingly as well).

Any way, I started developing feelings for him last fall, but I wasn’t quite sure how I felt yet. We spent a weekend together and at some point I said something about how we should get married in 5 years if we hadn’t met anyone (we are both about 30). He said “Are you sure you want to wait that long?” to which I responded by freaking out - literally I started talking about my biological clock and how quickly 5 years would come.

Then after a few weeks I started to realize that I might be in love with him. So I wrote him an email - one of the most important things I’ve said to anyone ever. I said that I thought we deserved a chance & that I had freaked out before but that if I had to imagine the person I would want to be with it would be him. I acknowledged how doing it over email was crazy but I didn’t know how else to say what I needed to say to him, that if he needed time it was fine, but I didn’t want to lose him.

& he freaked out. & has continued to freak out for the past 6 months. Basically all I’ve gotten have been a handful of clumsy, vaguely incoherent emails and about 3 phone calls, two of which I initiated, only one of which I felt was truly honest (not surprisingly perhaps, this was the one he initiated). Overall I kept reaching out to him, wanting to let go of the romantic thing but just not wanting to lose his friendship. But it became very difficult and even though he said he felt bad that he had let me down in his inability to really talk about it, he still couldn’t talk about it or even really try to be friends again.

Now, I am terribly distraught because I think I have lost his friendship & I completely regret saying what I said to him. I tend to think he obviously wasn’t ready but that he knows it is a mistake for us to not have even tried … & is overwhelmed by the whole thing. If it is a mistake, though, I am willing to let him make it, even though it sucks, especially because now that I have seen this more selfish side of him I am not sure he is even strong enough for me (you’re welcome for not actually saying “strong enough to be my man” :) ).

We haven’t been in touch for about a month, and the way I left it was that I told him that t was too hard to try to be his friend again when it felt like I was the only one even trying to keep it. I think he has gone into ostrich-mode … but I don’t know how long he plans to stay there. & I fear I will never see him ever again.

I share all of this here for two reasons:

1. To impart that it isn’t true that once a woman puts you in a friend box it is impossible for her to develop feelings for you. Haven’t you ever seen Scrubs? Seriously though. Ultimately, before all this went down, this guy was the one (straight) man who was always there for me, who I knew adored me, who always made me laugh, who would shoot the knees out of any stupid guy who hurt me, whom I probably even took for granted (though I think he took me for granted too). & now, sadly, he let me down more than any man I ever cared about.
2. To get a male perspective - from men who have apparently thought about this issue - on what happened. I learned recently that another friend of mine had something very similar happen to her - which was even more acute because in the past he had professed his feelings for her. What was most similar though was his utter inability to talk about it. WHY? Why can’t they talk about it? & why do they want to throw away the friendship that was there? The super-close guy-girl friendship that is both silly and serious is very special. I feel terrible that my gamble didn’t work out, mostly because what I had thought would be the worst case scenario was that we would have a mildly awkward 10-15 minute conversation and move on with our lives. I never thought that my gamble would result in the loss of an important friendship.

/S

Comment from Rose
Time: April 28, 2008, 3:50 am

I think that one kind of friendship this article fails to take into account is childhood friends. Some people are still friends with someone they met in kindergarten. These types of friendships tend not to involve romantic attraction because of the Westermarck effect, but they can be very emotionally intimate.

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