Can Men and Women Really be “Just Friends?”
by Brian Lee. Visited 29165 times, 14 so far today (45 comments) :: Print This Post
Posted: November 6th, 2006 under Life, Relationships.
There is a scene in the movie “When Harry Met Sally,” where Harry (played by Billy Crystal) tells Sally (played by Meg Ryan) that Men and Women can never be friends. Sally, of course, is insulted that he would say such an awful thing and rejects the notion. Ironically, they end up being friends for years before sleeping together, which changes everything. If you haven’t seen the movie, I won’t spoil the ending for you.
Does Harry have a point? The writer of the movie, Nora Ephron, poses a question through this dialog that few people consider: Do intimate but purely platonic male-female friendships exist or are we just kidding ourselves?
I would assume that most people, especially women, agree with Sally and take for granted that they do exist. I, on the other hand, see some truth in what Harry is saying. While I am not so naïve as to believe that these types of friendship have never existed, I would be willing to bet that they are much less common that most people think.
Before I offend the entire readership of this blog, lets define “intimate but purely platonic friendships” for the sake of this article. I am not talking about friends who hang out occasionally or share laughs together at work. I am not even talking about people who count on each other in a time of need. I am talking about people who fit these three criteria:
1) They spend a lot of leisure time alone together, not just a few lunches every now and them.
2) They trust each other to the point where they share private information with each other that few other people know.
3) They share an emotional bond but neither is sexually attracted to the other.
This definition describes most “best friends” of the same sex, but how frequently does this definition describe a male-female relationship?
In my experience, I have seen many examples of women who enjoy keeping male friends around because they like being able to access a “man’s perspective” without the complications of sexual attraction. Some women actually prefer to have male friends because they can avoid the cattiness and social competitiveness that exists in some female friendships. Even though these women are perfectly happy with their intimate relationships with men, I wonder how many of their male “friends” would sleep with them given the opportunity.
On the other hand, I have also seen many examples of men who, after failing to get a favorable response from their advances toward a woman, continue their pursuit by befriending her. The befriended woman doesn’t realize that by carrying on the charade, she is slowly ripping his heart out.
I know a woman who used to take a guy friend shopping with her every week to tell her how she looked as she tried on dresses and swimsuits. She thought that he was just a really great friend who was sharing some great insight with her on how she looked to men.
He finally couldn’t take it anymore. One night after having some wine, he broke down. He told her that she had been slowly torturing him, he was secretly in love with her, and this so-called friendship was driving him crazy! She was completely blindsided. She never considered that he was sexually attracted to her. At least he had the courage to say something. Many men never do.
To all the women out there who are shaking your heads like Sally and are listing all the men that you have as friends as proof against this notion; I would just say that you might be surprised as to how many of these men are attracted to you.
You see, when men look for someone to be friends with, we look for someone with whom we can watch TV, play sports, go fishing, or have a barbecue. Men bond over activities. We tend not to talk about our emotions, ask each other for advice, and we certainly don’t go shopping with each other if we can avoid it. You might be thinking that these are the very things that are wrong with us (and you might be right) but this is the way we are.
On the other hand, many men mistakenly befriend the women that they are secretly in love with only to get hurt emotionally. Since sharing emotions with someone is not something that comes naturally for us, when we do share our emotions it takes an enormous amount of energy. Sharing our feelings leaves us feeling vulnerable, so we save this sacred gift for the woman we want deeply. Women often mistake this emotional exchange as an act of friendship, because that is what comes naturally for them.
To all the men out there who have spilled your guts out to some woman in the hopes that she will someday see that you are meant to be together: I’m sorry. Although I empathize with you, I must tell you—she’s never going to come around. While emotions come naturally for women, sharing activity doesn’t, so a woman tends to only share activity with the man she wants. I think you know what I’m talking about when I say, “share activity.” Basically, if you have a purely emotional relationship with a woman that you want, without any activity, you’re probably not the one.
“Swingers,” my favorite movie of all time, has a scene where Trent (played by Vince Vaughn) is trying to give some advice to his friend Mike (played by Jon Favreau). Mike made the mistake of getting emotional right away with a girl that he was interested in. Instead of being clear that he was interested in her, he spills his guts out to her about his ex. Trent warns him of ending up on the “friendship tip,” meaning that once she sees him as a friend, she will never see him as anything more.
This brings up an interesting view of how men get hurt in relationships. Everyone is familiar with a common way that women get hurt: a man sleeps with her and never calls. While women get hurt by sharing something that is sacred to them, their sexual activity, men get hurt by sharing what is sacred to us, our emotional energy. While I am not trying to make excuses for men, or convince anyone to feel sorry for us, I do think that people should be aware of how this works.
Understanding the fundamental differences between men and women can go a long way to promote communication between us. Men and women operate in completely different paradigms. I recommend reading a book by John Gray called “Women are From Venus, Men are From Mars.” It helps to explain the differences in thinking between the sexes. When it comes down to it, we really do seem to come from different planets!
A man who doesn’t know this information will just assume that women think the way he does. He might go around sleeping with them like it’s no big deal, leaving a wake of scarred women. On the other hand, a woman who doesn’t know this information will just assume that all men think the way she does. She might go around befriending men to make up for her boyfriend’s emotional void. She saves her sexual activity for her boyfriend and gets to express her emotions to her guy “friends.” While this seems perfectly acceptable by societal standards, she doesn’t realize what she is doing to these men.
When I was in college one of my favorite classes was on interpersonal communication. The class really opened my eyes to the different ways that people think. As you can imagine a class on human relationships tends to breed close friendships within the class. We formed a tight-knit group of friends and continued the discussions after class.
I made an especially strong connection with an attractive girl in our group. We would take long walks and spend hours on the phone discussing what we were learning and sharing our beliefs with each other. Even though she had a boyfriend, I was absolutely convinced that we were meant to be together. At the time, I felt like she was the only person in the world who completely understood me.
The more we talked, the more I was hooked. This went on for the rest of the semester. It started to get really ugly when she began to bring up her relationship and ask me for advice. We could both agree that he was a jerk and that they shouldn’t be together but she continued to stay with him. As we talked I felt like we were on the same page, but when we hung up I was no better off than before.
When I look back on the situation, I realize that she had no incentive to leave him. All her needs were being met. He was fulfilling her physical needs and I was fulfilling her emotional needs. I was incorrectly projecting my own paradigm on her and thinking that we were on the same page.
When I finally figured out what was going on, it was a huge relief. While I still hung out with her from time to time in the group, I stopped spending the intense, emotional, one-on-one time with her that was killing me. In fact, I wasn’t even angry at her anymore. I was able to see past the situation and realize that she really wasn’t even my type.
These types of stories are very common, in fact, I know many men who have been in the same situation. These experiences foster the impression that nice guys really do finish last. Some men get hardened by these experiences and decide that the only way to get the girl is to be a jerk.
I am not advocating the “jerk” mentality, but I am suggesting that there is a duality that exists between nice guys and jerks. The “nice guy” mentality hurts men, and the “jerk” mentality hurts women. The answer, as in most dualistic situations, is not somewhere in between, but above. Men should be advised to take the emotional part of relationships slowly. Just as women are often advised to hold off until they get physical, men should hold off until they get emotional. I am not saying that men should never open up, because that would sort of be the “jerk” mentality. I am simply suggesting to ease into it.
Taking it slow has several advantages. First of all, it creates a little mystery. Women like the challenge of finding out who a man really is and if he tells her all at once the mystery is over. Second, a man who plays all his cards at once, by law of attraction, comes off as desperate. By trying so hard, he is simply reaffirming the fact that he doesn’t have her. Law of Attraction states that a person gets more of what he thinks about, so as he is dwelling on not having her, he continues to experience that result. Third, he is protecting himself from ending up on the “friendship tip.”
Most of all, men need to learn how to be tough. If a woman isn’t interested in you, move on. If you are interested in a woman, be clear about your intentions. Don’t try to sneak into a relationship by befriending her first. This just leads to confusion and heartache down the road.
To women, I would just suggest being aware of this phenomenon. Most men aren’t looking for a woman to go shopping with. This especially applies to exes. A lot of women have the idealistic view that no matter what happens in their relationship, they will always be “friends” with their partner. They break up, enter a new relationship, but keep in touch with their ex.
Many people will disagree, but can’t think of anything positive that comes out of maintaining an intimate friendship with an ex after you move on to a new relationship. There are a million reasons why this might not be practical, such as kids or shared property, but holding on to an ex tends to only complicate things.
First of all, in most cases men have no reason to remain emotionally close with an ex except to keep the door open. We don’t like to spend emotional energy, and only do so for someone we want to be with. With exes, the emotional energy spent is multiplied exponentially and the man has even less reason to remain close unless he has other intentions. This at best is unfair to her new partner.
Secondly, remaining close with an ex only increases doubt and mistrust in the mind of a new partner. This is especially true for men. We know how other men think, so we can see right through the ex’s attempts to be “friends” with her. This can be extremely painful for us because we know what is going on, but she is oblivious.
Lastly, it diminishes his sense of manhood when his partner spends excessive time with an ex. We feel best about our relationships when our partners make us feel useful and powerful. While we have come a long ways since men went out and killed the food while women stayed home to cook it, we still instinctively have strong feelings about being able to provide for our partners. Spending time with her ex makes us feel like the ex is fulfilling her needs instead of us.
Remember the woman who used to take the guy shopping with her? She revealed that story to me after a long conversation on this topic. At first, she reacted like Sally. She started naming off all the men that she considered friends; but after explaining my theories to her, a light went off in her head. She realized that of these friendships had ended after they made an advance on her. Learning why this was happening was a huge relief. Now she makes sure that her intentions are clear when entering relationships with men, therefore avoiding confusion.
In this article I have used a very dualistic tone, making it sound like every man thinks a certain way and every woman thinks another. Relativistic people will point out that there are not only exceptions to every rule, but often many shades of gray between black and white. Of coarse examples exist of intimate but purely platonic male-female friendships. Again, I am just suggesting that they are less common than people think.
While I understand that a relativistic perspective is an important part of critical thinking; I find that the best way to understand a situation is to start by looking at it dualistically. After I identify the two opposing forces at work, I then use relativistic thinking to help me understand the gray areas in between.
The most obvious exception is the gay and lesbian community. I can only write from a heterosexual perspective, but it would be interesting to know if any of these principles apply to the homosexual world. (Comments, anyone?)
Maybe men and women will never understand each other. Maybe women will continue to think that they can be “just friends” with men and men will continue to think that these friendships will turn into romances. One thing I know for sure is that not understanding each other helps keep us attracted to one another. The excitement in a relationship comes from continually learning about each other and growing together. Someone once said, “If two people agree on everything, then one of you is unnecessary.” It wouldn’t be as fun if we all were the same.
Good reading by other authors:
Guidelines for Platonic Friendships
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Time: March 18, 2007, 12:43 pm
http://geniustypes.com/2006/big_picture/can_men_and_women_really_be_just_friends
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Time: March 9, 2007, 7:06 pm
http://geniustypes.com/2006/big_picture/can_men_and_women_really_be_just_friends/
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Time: November 13, 2006, 10:20 am
Can Men and Women really be “Just Friends?” I for one think that it is possible, to have very good friends even if they are of the opposite gender. But one must draw the line definitely at how ‘close’ will this friend be. Somethings just have to give way if you are in a relationship and every
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Time: April 11, 2007, 12:34 pm
Here is the link to the full article, this blog is longer then the article is but when I let go and write I tend to have a lot to say. I would definitely recommend everyone read the article because I am sure it will give you insight into both sexes. http://geniustypes.com/can_men_and_women_really_be_just_friends/
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Time: November 15, 2006, 2:34 am
this
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Time: August 30, 2007, 6:45 am
this article
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Time: March 25, 2007, 9:55 pm
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Time: March 28, 2007, 9:04 am
lol…cattiness. good word.
I had a girl like this when I was in high school, but after that didn’t work out…I never did it again. Great article on a very true aspect of interpersonal relationships.
PS…Swingers is my favorite movie too!
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Time: April 7, 2007, 7:17 am
[...] use the ‘nice guy’ mentality; they also get hurt because they get involved emotionally too quick. This article is a good read; the bits about how men and women get hurt differently in relationships are most [...]
Time: May 2, 2007, 1:30 pm
Women do think this way , I have a girlfriend who has these Flings with guys she calls ” Friends” She doesn’t cheat but she also doesn’t know or care that these guys want her . she has no clue what she is doing to be inside . It’s fine to be friends , But it’s not fine to go out with these guys alone .
Time: July 3, 2007, 5:52 pm
Great Article. I am a 54 year old female, who has experienced this for years. I never knew that I was setting up some disasters. Too often both the man & the woman gets hurt, one way or the other.
Time: July 4, 2007, 12:10 am
I’m glad you stopped by, Alice.
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Time: July 11, 2007, 5:57 pm
[...] it can be done. Here is s website talking about Can Men and Women really be Just Friends? http://geniustypes.com/can_men_and_w…_just_friends/ ________________________________ You can make more friends in two months by becoming really [...]
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Time: August 14, 2007, 8:05 pm
[...] Read this and this. [...]
Time: September 1, 2007, 7:13 am
I have a bunch of female friends. I’m not interested in having sex with them. So yes, it is possible. Just depends on the people.
Time: September 25, 2007, 2:02 am
I believe this author is telling the hidden, in the closet truth that has been a huge source of conflict, anger and victimization between men and women. I do believe that in certain circumstances men and women can “just be friends”, but more often than not there is a hidden agenda filtered by our unawareness and self deception and this can be very dangerous. I always had male friends, mainly because I found the conversations to be more intellectually stimulating or because I had the opportunity to participate and learn trades that were typically manly. Of course I believed that they were just my friends because that is what they told me. It wasn’t true. This turned into the worst case scenario. A man did not tell the truth to me or himself, I was unaware of the dynamic (as most women are) being too open and friendly. When I started dating someone, I suddenly became the villian abuser victimizer that had destroyed our marriage that I knew nothing about. This man was seriously hurt, angry and devastated. The truth is that we were both living in denial of how it typically works. I felt terrible because I didn’t know the truth and my unawareness contributed to his pain. Ladies, be careful because men can be very hurt and so can you. Deeply repressed emotions can turn into something VERY scary. Men are socialized to be strong and perhaps not let on how they really feel. Even if you tell them the truth, they might not hear you. We are not told the truth of how men typically think and even when we are we don’t want to believe it. Often these men will assume that we “know” in their mind, therefore they feel victimized and sometimes like in my case they will unjustly come after you and hurt you.
Time: September 28, 2007, 11:52 pm
There is an additional comment I must make concerning this article and it’s slant toward the male perspective which does contain the unfortunate side of lying to ourselves and each other in gender relations.
He claims: “When the men fail to get a “favorable response” THEY befriend the woman. The befriended woman doesn’t realize that by carrying on the charade, SHE is ripping his heart out.”
I have to ask the question who is deceiving whom here? He is deceiving her, then conveniently assumes she must be aware of the “charade” HE is instigating in his mind and therefore blames her for what HE started in motion. He is transferring the blame. In fact, he set the situation up that way and then feels justified in calling her the victimizer.
Perhaps we all need to go within and wake up (men and women). Start telling ourselves and each other the truth so this type of psychological warfare and victimization is stopped. Men and women can be friends when they ARE men and women. Men and women are honest with themselves and each other.
Time: February 5, 2008, 8:00 pm
I like the article, it truly does speak the truth. You haven’t posted an article in a long time, I hope you get back to it soon. Men and women truly are different, and although there are exceptions to this rule, it stands true empirically.
Time: March 27, 2008, 1:04 pm
I found this article to be extremely interesting, especially because it came from a guy’s perspective.
But I am a woman and in a strange situation myself. I was very close friends with this guy for 10 years. Even though for most of that time we weren’t in the same city, we have stayed very close. In retrospect, I suspect he had feelings for me toward the beginning of our friendship but I think I was probably oblivious (willingly and unwittingly as well).
Any way, I started developing feelings for him last fall, but I wasn’t quite sure how I felt yet. We spent a weekend together and at some point I said something about how we should get married in 5 years if we hadn’t met anyone (we are both about 30). He said “Are you sure you want to wait that long?” to which I responded by freaking out – literally I started talking about my biological clock and how quickly 5 years would come.
Then after a few weeks I started to realize that I might be in love with him. So I wrote him an email – one of the most important things I’ve said to anyone ever. I said that I thought we deserved a chance & that I had freaked out before but that if I had to imagine the person I would want to be with it would be him. I acknowledged how doing it over email was crazy but I didn’t know how else to say what I needed to say to him, that if he needed time it was fine, but I didn’t want to lose him.
& he freaked out. & has continued to freak out for the past 6 months. Basically all I’ve gotten have been a handful of clumsy, vaguely incoherent emails and about 3 phone calls, two of which I initiated, only one of which I felt was truly honest (not surprisingly perhaps, this was the one he initiated). Overall I kept reaching out to him, wanting to let go of the romantic thing but just not wanting to lose his friendship. But it became very difficult and even though he said he felt bad that he had let me down in his inability to really talk about it, he still couldn’t talk about it or even really try to be friends again.
Now, I am terribly distraught because I think I have lost his friendship & I completely regret saying what I said to him. I tend to think he obviously wasn’t ready but that he knows it is a mistake for us to not have even tried … & is overwhelmed by the whole thing. If it is a mistake, though, I am willing to let him make it, even though it sucks, especially because now that I have seen this more selfish side of him I am not sure he is even strong enough for me (you’re welcome for not actually saying “strong enough to be my man” 
).
We haven’t been in touch for about a month, and the way I left it was that I told him that t was too hard to try to be his friend again when it felt like I was the only one even trying to keep it. I think he has gone into ostrich-mode … but I don’t know how long he plans to stay there. & I fear I will never see him ever again.
I share all of this here for two reasons:
1. To impart that it isn’t true that once a woman puts you in a friend box it is impossible for her to develop feelings for you. Haven’t you ever seen Scrubs? Seriously though. Ultimately, before all this went down, this guy was the one (straight) man who was always there for me, who I knew adored me, who always made me laugh, who would shoot the knees out of any stupid guy who hurt me, whom I probably even took for granted (though I think he took me for granted too). & now, sadly, he let me down more than any man I ever cared about.
2. To get a male perspective – from men who have apparently thought about this issue – on what happened. I learned recently that another friend of mine had something very similar happen to her – which was even more acute because in the past he had professed his feelings for her. What was most similar though was his utter inability to talk about it. WHY? Why can’t they talk about it? & why do they want to throw away the friendship that was there? The super-close guy-girl friendship that is both silly and serious is very special. I feel terrible that my gamble didn’t work out, mostly because what I had thought would be the worst case scenario was that we would have a mildly awkward 10-15 minute conversation and move on with our lives. I never thought that my gamble would result in the loss of an important friendship.
/S
Time: April 28, 2008, 3:50 am
I think that one kind of friendship this article fails to take into account is childhood friends. Some people are still friends with someone they met in kindergarten. These types of friendships tend not to involve romantic attraction because of the Westermarck effect, but they can be very emotionally intimate.
Time: September 21, 2008, 6:10 am
When i see this title ,first i think it is possible.
Time: October 21, 2008, 1:48 pm
Evidently I am one of the shades of gray… from this it looks like I have a guy’s mind while I’m a girl. Too many times when I begin a friendship with a guy. I think too much about it and whether he has an agenda that I develop feelings for him. Right now I am even in a relationship like this. We’re close, but he has a girlfriend and I know they’re close and probably will get married one day. I can’t help having these thoughts and feelings towards him though. It’s terrible. As I read through this I just kept thinking, “Wow. I’m the guy and he’s the girl- the oblivious one.” The only time I have ever lied to him was when a friend commented on how it looked like we were in a relationship (beyond friendship) and then he asked me if I was interested in him. He then proceeded to tell me that he knows that he is neither conciously nor subconciously in love with me. He doesn’t see that we’re getting really close and spending a lot of alone time together. It really is tearing me apart!
Time: March 16, 2009, 1:56 am
Can Men and Women Really be “Just Friends?”..Yes, of course! But then again, there should be a limitation.
My hubby and I were married for 5 years blessed with two wonderful kids. I have a particular guy friend whose so close to me, we share a laugh, cry as our bonding moments but never alone, I mean, on our own.. Yes, I am so close with him but there should be a limitation to that closeness because I do respect my husband a lot. It is not jealousy that counts, it the respect with your special someone that should matter.
Time: July 1, 2009, 12:07 am
Personally, I never believe men and women can be friend forever. At certain point one of them will fall in love but will never admit. This is from my own experience.
Time: July 1, 2009, 10:56 pm
One of my best friends in college was a guy and I thought we genuinely were just friends. We have grown apart now and I think that happens when one person falls in love with someone else and gets married. We are still in contact occasionally, but no longer good friends.
I agree with your article though. You never really know how the other person is feeling and you risk hurting them. I had a little crush on him for a while and who knows he may have had a crush on me at some point.
All I know is that now I am married we never see each other anymore, so I guess I will never know what really happened there.
Time: July 2, 2009, 6:52 pm
“These experiences foster the impression that nice guys really do finish last”
-PS: Thought of the Day
Boy this article serves a great relief to definately the mans apetite and hopefully the womans too and above all to guys like me I guess . I did this “jerk” type opening up on 2 to 3 occasions and guess what? Down you go in the Trash Can! But its not my mistake or any of those “nice guys” mistake if they open up, because what I believe is that “You must make sure that you get what you like, otherwise you will be forced to like what you get!”. Besides this might just become your one big time memory you would be proud to advice to your grand children as a Grand Pa maybe?
There are several traits Brian thats what I can say. Women often get surprised when a good long time friend comes out and asks her for a relationship, they take it as “I am very surprised to hear this from you”. But what If a complete stranger walks into her and tells her the same things, what kind of a blimp size surprise that would turn out to be? I don’t know who to advocate on this one; the Long Time Friend or the Girl? But never mind I learned a lot from this yet another great article! I am a big time fan of this site now!
Time: July 2, 2009, 7:51 pm
Thanks, everyone for the comments. Some very good thoughts and insights to add to the conversation.
There has been a resurgence of interest in this article and “Signs of Insecurity.” I wonder why?
Are you guys coming from StumbleUpon?
Welcome, wherever you are coming from.
Keep bugging me and I’ll finally put out another article.
Time: July 3, 2009, 1:36 am
WOW! Thanks Brian for the appreciation. Very few people like to share their thoughts on their personal experiences esp. in intricate matters like this. I have to give Hats Off to you on this article BTW, because recently I have been experiencing both Insecurity and GF/BF messups 
It helped me understand where I stand now in that relationship. Oh sorry! I didnt wanted to increase your server loads by making more and more comments but expect some more enlightening and thought sharing comments from me in the future
And last bu no least I don’t come from StumbleUpon, I come from Google searching for Insecurity but found a Combo Pack!
Time: July 6, 2009, 2:21 pm
THIS IS JUST MY POINT OF VIEW….I am a female and I say “NO”…you cannot be platonic friends with a male…no way. The reason that people become friends in the first place is because they are attracted to each other’s personalities….so this type of friendship there is already attraction going on…and then throw in the female and male sex drive….recipe for a roll in the hay. Women do like to fool themselves and their boyfriends/spouses in to thinking that it is just a friendship….and not sexual…but at least one of them….if not both…will start to develop feelings…or just want to jump in the sack. Men and women cannot be just friends. Women who say “Oh, I get along better with men” are really saying that they like to get all the attention from men and make other women jealous and they are just playing games with men. Women who say they get along better with men are lying to themselves but more then likely what they are really saying is that the like attention from men more because it is sexual attention.
Time: July 6, 2009, 2:32 pm
Wow, Shaya. I’ve got to respect such an honest opinion.
Time: July 8, 2009, 12:19 pm
Brian,
Did you do ANY research or read anything besides the book “women are from venus, men are from mars”?
You and I aggree completely…except for one key point: Harry, the charecter, as you used, has a point that you dont talk about and that is what men will end up wanting.
So I geuss I am agreeing with Shaya!! I am a guy and I often have have had many a talk with women friends or girlfriends describing the reality of the dynamic of there “male” friends. And I have had most of them, either at that moment or sometimes long after, but most of them had a light turn on – they like the underlining sexual attention and/or their male friends had held on to hope in the back of there mind for a growth to more.
Why post a comment if this was brought up by Shaya??
There IS a in between! Though I agree with Shaya point, the logical response is you cant talk to any men other than your husband?? No, I believe that there are boundaries of some key points you CAN maintain and be casual friends. Your article made it clear we you were talking about deep friendship as you defined in your 3 criteria. I want to point out that those can be considered boundary points. I do believe men and women maintain those without knowing it sometimes, and with mature people who see these boundaries are probably people who respect themselves better than most and respect the opposite sex better than most as well because though they “could” be deep friends, they CHOOSE out of mutual respect to maintain boundaries.
If this were not true, a women should shun every man who talks to her in public for more than a minute. You have to instead ask:
* is this crossing the boundary of what is personal?
—-Huge misconception the world has: if asked a question often people feel responsible to answer. NO! Not every question a friend asks must be answered! Some are worse than others, but take for instance this: If a boss asked you a question about work, we ALL THINK BEFORE WE SPEAK! We dont want to tell them the wrong things, good or bad, we think before we speak. Yet, when things get personal and with friends, we feel obligated at times to speak without THINKING. Some feel they are obligated to give some kind of truthful answer, even if to deflect. We are afraid sometimes to NOT respond, hence protect our personal areas. That’s my humble opinion on this point anyway…
* is this headed to private time together?
—-not necessarily alone time, but even in public, like a restaurant or park, yet away from others who may by their presence keep you accountable.
* is this investment touching on what either person would want to be part of a “relationship”?
—-any time we say “I dont want anything more” needs to be followed up with action of walking away. It doesn’t matter “why” and we often assume we have to explain, which often leads to the reject person changing to fit into an acceptable place so that person can stay close. So without the follow through, otherwise they are empty words that only make the person who said them feel better about staying and taking what they want regardless of how the other may feel. Its a cop out to say that and stay in a deep friendship without clear and obviously stepping out of that deep connection, again like your and my criteria points too.
So to sum up – Shaya and you are correct, but I think too that we CAN maintain boundaries, that, if EITHER person crosses, must be followed up with action to step away. Yet, if both people respect each other with boundries, an open (non private) and safe friendship is possible.
But when some of or all of your 3 criteria take root…than I fully agree with SHAYA!!!! 100%…Harry was right.
Time: July 8, 2009, 12:35 pm
And to respond to the “Ms. S”….
What you described and the question you posed to us men for our perspective is pretty clear from my place looking in: You were in a relationship, at some leval. What loss our feeling and pain, if I can be bold, is the pain often attributed to a “break up”.
You have to find strength in a break up to move on…and yes move on from what you see as a friendship. There is no fault, no blame, yet it did become a relationship because it was so close, as a healthy relationship should be. As a man, I suggest you look at it as a relationship, be honest with yourself, admit the depth of it so you can validate your pain.
Then, you may find strenght to accept what it wont become and move on….see, it really is a breakup.
If you accept the depth of the feelings and emotional attatchments you will then be able to accept that its time to find value in yourself, in your abilities to love, and let go of him so you can search for one who will not only replace the best friend portion(which any healthy relationship WILL HAVE)…but find one who will recipricate openly your love. That is not likely to happen until you have the courage to let go.
That’s my manly perspective you asked for. Hope it helps.
Time: July 8, 2009, 12:36 pm
Jason- Well thought-out comment. I appreciate the input.
Research- no, this is just an opinion piece.
What I see many readers doing is thinking deeply about all of the relative situations of this topic, which is what smart people do. -They have learned to think relativistically.
I’m pretty good a relativism, but I’ve found in my years that it can get you in big trouble and it takes a lot of energy.
I haven’t thrown relativism out the window, but I have learned to acknowledge it and decisively choose a practical framework for thinking that can help me get on with my life and limit my exposure to risk.
Lots of great debate on this post thread. Please keep it up.
Time: September 6, 2009, 7:51 am
funny, the relationship between a brother and sister or other family members tends to meet those criteria.
i think its a good tactic to have many female friends as a man and consciously keep them as just friends, because that gives him access to many other women.
i think its unlikely to happen naturally because if a man becomes befriended with a woman who isn’t sexually attracted with him, hes going to feel like hes inferior all the time when hes around her. so theres more chance that they become friends after having sex.
Time: September 7, 2009, 3:34 am
According to your 3 criteria I bet that kind of relationship would end in love affair and may also last long through successful wedding.
Time: September 17, 2009, 7:08 am
not is she is hot. temptation is always there.
Time: October 8, 2009, 11:10 am
I think that there are a very few of these relationships.
I’m not sure if this applies, but there was a girl i was attracted to a few years ago, and we werent very close at the time, but she was attracted to one of my friends, and went out with him. I quickly got over her, and we have become very good friends, to the point where i now consider her my closest girl friend, and we fulfill all of the above requirements, e.g spending leisure time together, and also sharing personal information.
I am not at all sexually attracted to her now, and we have on occasion shared a bed without the thought even crossing my mind.
But even though she has now split up with her boyfriend, i could never go out with her, because her ex is also one of my best friends.
My point is, does this relationship count as one of these very close male/female relationships, or have i become so used to the fact that i cant go out with her, my mind has accepted it, and no longer makes me attracted to her.
Time: October 20, 2009, 3:57 pm
Though it seems quite reasonable, but I personally don’t think so. There comes a point when your friendship is converted into love. It is also said that friends can be a good lover. So, I think there is a very rare, I stress, very rare instances where a boy and a girl can be just friends.
Time: November 19, 2009, 10:05 am
I think it is hard ….at least to me.
Thanks for sharing such useful post. I enjoy reading it.
Time: December 30, 2009, 2:34 pm
hi,can u help me to answer this question?…
if men and women have grown so big,how will they be able to go down on their knees,
to welcome this truth?
in the dark night of faith?
Time: December 31, 2009, 1:10 am
I think ex’s can definitely be friends. My ex wife and I are great friends. We have 3 children and we speak to each other several times a week.
Time: January 14, 2010, 11:02 pm
Men and women can successfully become close friends, yes there are good reasons for them to do so.
However, the reality that sexual attraction could suddenly enter the equation of a cross-sex friendship uninvited is always lurking in the background.
Time: January 19, 2010, 7:55 pm
Good points there. The only way a platonic relationship works is when there are communication involved but not so much of time spent together. The moments spent together just kills if there’s no romantic intention. And to reinforce the point, just remember that even the best of these platonic relationships will degrade gradually once the guy has a girlfriend since he has to deal with all the “jealousy” factor. So girls, don’t keep a head up for “just friends” relationship, it’s doomed.
Time: January 25, 2010, 7:38 pm
I honestly used to believe that a man and a woman could just be friends. I had a really great male friend when I was younger, but then when he was dating other girls I began to feel jealous and experience feelings I wasn’t expecting, since then we have both got married to other people and when we do meet up now it just feels a bit weird.
Time: January 29, 2010, 1:12 pm
Sure men and women can just be friends… in my personal experience at least. The difference I think is that a man will almost always want to sleep with a woman he is physically attracted to, lol… while women won’t believe this is true and will have more restraint.
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